Fight for SU8
1. Gerstel SA has the right (i.e. the licence from the patent owner) to sell SU8.
2. The information we reported previously on the website was incorrect and we apologize for causing harm to the good name and reputation of Gerstel and Dr. Judelewicz and for misleading the readers of the site.
3. We have been unfortunately caught in the fight between Dr Judelewicz (Gerstel SA) and Dr J. L. Guerin on issue related to their former partnership in SOTEC Microsystem, but that is the tribute to the usefulness of this website :-) It seems that there is still a doubt on the derived product that is SU8 with filler (for clarity, again, understand that there is apparently no problem with 'normal' SU8 sold by Gerstel) which Dr Guerin claims can not be sold by other parties (promissing to sue users) - we have seen two patent disclosures (no patents yet) on that topic from Dr Guerin but only a lawyer will be able to sort this things out. However we hope that this problem could be solved without legal action in the near future for the benefit of all SU8 users, and if we can help we would be happy to do so!
So for those who like to see how the things evolved, here is a lighthearted story of your servitor involvment in why may remain in history as the 'Fight on SU8'! Oh, well, here is what you get for trying to help your human brother and for free advertisement: promiss of being sued :-)
The story started by an email from L. Guerin the former founder of Sotec Microsystem, a now defunct company that was spin-off from the group in Lausanne who pionnered the SU8 work
[08/04/2004] Dear Sir, My name is Louis Guerin and I worked with SOTEC Microsystems. I had now a look at your page about SU8 and I have some comments: a. You say that there is now a company in Israel called Gerstel. I just want to tell you that this company does not have the right to sell a certain number of products as it does. In fact many of those products are covered by patents that belong only to me and judelewicz from gerstel has NO license for them. I even doubt that he has a license from IBM to sell pure SU8 (Judelewicz probably thinks he can use the license IBM gave to SOTEC Microsystems, but that's something he does not have this right). I must also say that Judelewicz, who worked at Sotec Microsystems, is sued today for his actions at SOTEC Microsystems. He is the main responsible for the death of that company (it was he who decided on his own that SOTEC MCICROSYSTEM has to stop all activities) and it now the job of the justice to fix this matter. So I think that, as long as this procedure is running, Gerstel should not be listed as a producer of SU8. I am now suing Judelewicz for his dishonesties and bad actions, and I will not hesitate to sue all person who will buy and use products from Gerstels that are protected by my patents (remover, SU8 with filler)... b. I have now created another homepage about SU8 where I have put the technical informations that were on the page of SOTEC MICROSYSTEMS. The address of that page is www.geocities.com/su8home or www.geocities.com/guerinlj. Best regards Dr Louis J. GuerinThen I added a warning to relay the doubt of Dr Guerin whom has serious credential and a long and well known history with SU8. But then we received this:
[03/05/2004] Dear Sirs, In relation to the information on your site: warning text in red frame: (quote) WARNING: Gerstel SA the other company supposedly selling SU8 is sued by Dr J. L. Guerin (former member SOTEC). According to Dr J. L. Guerin they may not even be legally able to sell SU8. Moreover Dr J. L. Guerin apparently still hold all the right on the derived product (SU8 with filler and remover) and they can not be sold by other parties. We hope that these problems will be solved in the near future for the benefit of all the SU8 users, but as we are not in the position to decide who is right or wrong while we are waiting for the justice to decide we'll leave the contact to Gerstel SA. Please let me clarify as follows: Gerstel SA has sigend a licence agreement with IBM, Contract N° W0129610, sigend by Gerald Rosenthal from IBM dated 17.1.03, for the production and marketing of SU8. Therefore the information you included is the site is not true, diffamatory and hurts the good name of Gerstel SA. Mr Louis Guerin is allowed to have his opinions on any matter, however you have commited a crimal offense by placing untrue and diffamatory information on a public site. In light of this I ask you to do two things: 1) withdraw immediately the diffamatory text from the public site 2) in the same space (i.e. red frame in which today you have placed the warning) insert an apologetic explanation, that the information contained in the Warning were not true and diffamatory to the good name of Gerstel SA, which has all legal rights necessary to manufacture and marketing SU8. 3) Withdraw from the site any other diffamatory information on Gerstel SA. Please be informed that public diffusion of information that are false and directed to hurt a good name of an individual or an enterprise is a criminal offence and subject to the relevant legal regulations. In case you do not update the site with an immediate effect, the legal action will be taken against you, with the request to close the site as well as financial compenstation for the damage commited. With respect, Judelewicz, Gerstel Ltd. Judelewicz General Manager Ben -Zion 19, 54286 Israel Switzerland/Israel/Taiwan Fax: +97 23 620 29 13 E-mail:Gerstel2@bezeqint.net E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org Web: www.gersteltec.ch
Accordingly we immediately changed the banner, of course (but not because the new threat to be sued :-), and expressed our embarassment of having hurt someone here by leaving a red banner with free advertisement (note, anyway, that there is legally no diffamation by the website : all the comments are referred to their original author - we are only poor journalists here...)
But the story does not end here, and here is what we received :
[18/05/04] Dear Sir, Re: Gerstel SA and Dr. Moshe Judelewicz We are writing to you, on behalf of our clients - Gerstel SA and Dr. Moshe Judelewicz - regarding the http://aveclafaux.freeservers.com website. We have been instructed to approach you on the understanding that you are the person who writes on the site. In the event that this is not the case, please refer us to the correct individual. It is our clients' view that you are under an obligation to check the information that you make public before you publish names and products on your website. We are advised that you have previously issued a warning on the said website, which - as our clients pointed out in their letter of May 3, 2004 - was not only materially harmful to Gerstel SA Dr. Moshe Judelewicz, but contained incorrect, untrue and defamatory information. In response thereto, we are advised that you have issued the following warning on the said website: "SU-8: A THICK PHOTO-RESIST FOR MEMS WARNING: Gerstel SA is also selling SU8 (at least with EPFL) - sorry for the previous misleading remark. We have been unfortunately caught in the fight between Dr Judelewicz (Gerstel SA) and Dr J. L. Guerin on issue related to their former partnership in SOTEC Microsystem, but that is the tribute to the usefulness of this website :-) Dr Guerin apparently still hold all the right on the derived product (SU8 with filler and remover) which he says can not be sold by other parties. Anyway, we hope that these problems will be solved in the near future for the benefit of all SU8 users... (created 01/99 - modified 03/05/04)" Unfortunately and much to our clients' surprise, this warning simply does not correct your previous harmful and defamatory statement regarding Gerstel SA. It still states that Gerstel did not have the right to sell SU8. Sadly you did not take the opportunity of checking the contents of either the original or the amended warning with Gerstel - either directly or via the information available to the public on the Gerstel website (www.gersteltech.ch). As a result of this, not only Gerstel SA but also Dr. Judelewicz, have suffered and continue to suffer substantial harm to their business, good name and reputation. Our clients have requested us to demand that you will forthwith and without delay publish a clear and unambiguous correction warning on the website correcting the previous two warnings and stating the following: 1. Gerstel SA has the right (i.e. the licence from the patent owner) to sell the product; and 2. Indicating that the information provided by you previously was incorrect and apologizing for causing harm to the good name and reputation of Gerstel and Dr. Judelewicz and for misleading the readers of the site; and 3. Including the correct details for Gerstel as follows: Gerstel SA 19 Ben-Zion, 54286 Tel-Aviv, Israel, Tel: +41 79 564 34 23, Fax: +97 23 620 29 13, under the name GM1040, GM1060, GM1070, GLM2060 SU8/Nanocomposites and others MEMS, MOMES and LIGA products (corresponding to IBM license). In the event that you do not forthwith proceed to make the requisite corrections and statements as indicated above, our clients shall be faced with no alternative but to resort to legal proceedings for all remedies and compensation available to us. Nothing in this letter shall, or shall be deemed to be, any derogation of or prejudice to, the rights and remedies of Gerstel SA and/or Dr. Judelewicz. Yours sincerely, Helen Raziel, Adv. Naschitz Brandes & Co Cc: Adv. Eran Ballan - Naschitz Brandes & Co, Law Firm Gerstel SA - Dr. Moshe Judelewicz Mr. Eli Ekaim, Adv., Switzerland
Well, that's it. Real lawyers.
Thus it seems our correction did not satisfy Gerstel SA, and because we think that it must really be hurting if they feel they have to use a law firm to settle dispute between good-willing people, then we had to reply this to explain our position and of course change again the Warning message - stay tuned for the next development!
Dear Moshe, it seems that you are not satisfied with the curent text on the website, although the Warning is currently just stating factual things and does contain an apology for the misleading comments that were there previously, and for which, we assure you, we are very sorry. For us we thought we were helping you because we directly link your company website and give you high credential by stating that you are selling your product to the EPFL, a world recognized name for MEMS in general and SU8 in particular. We are in the first place keeping this free advertisement on this non-commercial website because our main concern is to help the community and provide as many source of SU8 as possible, at least to drive the price of the SU8 down. But as you understand, what should we do from the promiss of Dr Guerin "I will not hesitate to sue all person who will buy and use products from Gerstels that are protected by my patents (remover, SU8 with filler)"? It is our duty, although you may not like it, to warn the readers of the *possible* problem with the derived SU8 product for which Dr Guerin does (really) hold patent. Thus, for the main aspect of your business, the commercialization of SU8, we definitely agree to change the text to fit your requirement more closely, because it seems you are not satisfied and because we were indeed wrong in the first place (however notice that we state : "Two companies have now bought a license from IBM to sell the photoresist : * MicroChem Inc... * Gerstel SA..." which is clear no?!) However, until you have not clearly established that you can rightfully commercialize the SU8 with filler product (in your letter and emails I can not find any claim to substantiate this currently), by explaining why you don't infringe on Dr Guerin patents and thus that user of SU8 with filler can not be sued by Dr Guerin, we feel compelled to maintain the warning on the derived products on the website. Of course we will be happy to modify this last statement, because currently you are the sole seller commercializing SU8 with filler, and this product is very interesting for different applications, thus we really hope that this problem can be resolved quickly. To help the things out, we will be asking Dr Guerin evidence for his statements, and if there are no substantial answer in one month time, we shall remove the statement. Finally, I wish to ensure you that there is no need to spend money on a firm law, had you send an email after the previous correction to the website saying that you were not satisfied with the change, we would have gladly edited the text. The modification were done in good faith, believing that they were corresponding to your requirement. To avoid any problem in this round we will mostly use the text you include in your letter - although the tone is very different from the rest of the page. We try to be as fair as possible to everybody here, thus please be sure that there is nothing here but pure desinterested service rendered to the community (the website does not bring us one cent of revenue, and our name does not appear anywhere there), there is no complot to destabilize Gerstel SA either : we need as many SU8 vendors as possible! Your faithfully, Maintainer of the SU8 websiteSince then Dr Guerin sent us document showing the proof he deposited patent disclosure with the Swiss Patent Office (but no patent was granted yet) which title could encompass the claim he is doing (but there is no lawyer here :-) - however we did not hear anything from Gerstel [note that I drop the SA because they did it on the Gerstel website - SA refers to a very specific type of company under Swiss law and Gerstel does not fall in that category].